Talk:Sheogorath

What?
Looks like a banker? Don't get that impression. lol

Needs are re-write, pretty highly opinional. --65.25.14.176 13:04, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

The reference to Jyggalag should either carry a 'spoiler' alert or be deleted completely, as this information is perhaps the greatest twist in the Shivering Isles Main Quest. andy 16:25, 23 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Agreed, go ahead and remove it. \*\ Hellhound43 18:03, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

the entire 'he looks like a banker' sentence should be removed
 * That's how Daggerfall described him, so it should stay. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 21:29, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * thats describing how he looked in daggerfall, this isn't daggerfall so unless he looks the same it isnt paticularily relevant to oblivion
 * It's relevant since Oblivion is a sequel to the earlier games. Oblivion is a continuation of the world presented in Daggerfall; Oblivion isn't a world of its own. The Sheogorath in Daggerfall is the same Sheogorath in Oblivion; you just see them at a different time and place. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 17:55, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

The whole thing needs a re-write ("Favored weapon is the Wabbajack?" Who says he even uses it; it's his reward for completing his shrine quest.) The bit about Jyggalag could use some cleanup as well. Felindre (talk) 09:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I noticed this was copied from UESP

My Kinda Guy
How can you argue with a guy who enjoys brain pie AND openly asks for donations?--75.85.75.248 19:39, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

After you become Sheogorath, how is it that you can go back to Tamriel unlike the othe Daedric Lords?Kirbsys 02:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing it has something to do with still being "mortal." Since you aren't a daedra, you can physically enter the realm freely. \*\ Hellhound43 03:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Gotta love Sheogorath. The guy is crazy but hilarious.Idk000000 (talk) 01:22, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Mortal sheogorath
Yep! The reson you can leave the Shivering Isles IS because you're still mortal. Technically, you are only a representative of Sheogorath. The Shivering Isles leaves it open ended the fate of Sheogorath. I've come up with two possibilities. 1: You die and Jyggalag becomes Sheogorath again. 2: Eventually, you somehow become a real Deadric prince.


 * I think you just don't age while in the Isles, but if you went back to Tamriel after, say, 100 years, you would just die, making it imposible to leave. Well, at least there would still be cheese! (Maybe)


 * Mind linking the evidence to back up this claim?SubjectSigma24 (talk) 07:25, December 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Tiber Septim could ascend to divinehood, why would not a mortal like Hero of Kvatch ascend to Daedric Princehood? Didn't Jyggalag said by himself how hate he is with his own madness self a.k.a Sheogorath? That just plain impossible if he somehow decide to become Sheogorath after he break free from the curse? There are evidences that current Sheogorath is indeed Hero of Kvatch. He said many dialogues that only happen to Hero of Kvtach which is one of them that he witnessed by himself how Martin turned into Dragon of Akatosh. Shengar (talk) 13:23, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Also if you look at his eyes his eyes don't look right and he'd did say at one point to the Hero of Kvatch he would pluck the Hero's eyes out. I'm pretty sure that the hero some how became Sheogorath at some point. GrimmShadows (talk) 19:19, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sheogorath dumping grounds
"If attacked, he easily paralyzes you and teleports you high into the air over the center of the island from where you will fall to your death." I found the dumping ground of the bodies (where you also end up) and i think we should make an article about it (among other things, there's an easter egg). I'm suggesting the name: Sheogorath's Dumping Ground, but if anyone has a better suggestion, I'm open for it. --Remco 15:21, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

i belive yer character is supose to asscend to a deadric lord, just as talos asscended to a god, and one of the gods themselves was turned into a deadric prince by malacath, i belive ye dont git yer reconition in tamriel just becuz they felt it would alter gameplay too much Rking

Gambolpuddy
Do you know the effect of Gambolpuddy on Morrowind?
 * See this. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 00:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

His Eyes
Strange what the screenshot looks like and what the article says. In my game he has 2 different types of eyes. One(left{his right}) is identical to the Golden Saints and the other is identical to that of a Dark Seducer. Im not sure if anyone else notices it but if you don't, I have the Game of the Year Edition if that changes anything. 204.14.13.162 18:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe his eyes change? anyhow it deserves a mention that his eyes arent always like that

Sheogorath's dump site
When I attacked Sheogorath I was dropped on the Hill of Suicides. I found that funny because if you think about it attacking him would be suicide.

His accent is both an irish and scottish one his voice actor said so.
Being scottish myself he sounds way more irish and even his voice actor west said its a mix of the two accents so stop deleting it..


 * I don't know the voice actor, but if someone does, shouldn't we put the info up in the photo box? (Reminded me of a good comic, Billy Connelly, but if a Scotsman says it's not the correct accent, then I wouldn't argue about it.) -- Jagganath (talk) 19:43, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Sheogorath in Skyrim is your character from Oblivion?
Sheogorath in Skyrim says he was around when Martin turned into the Dragon God so it might be your character from Oblvion who has gone... let's say more Sheogorath like while in the Shivering Isles. Chris-the-killer 18:14, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yes I think so, he mentions alot about oblivion and that may just be true, he also looks alot like the default when creating your character in Oblivion. 24.185.119.211 19:43, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

But it's a subjective thing; a player may not choose to become sheogorath in the shivering isles for whatever reason (not owning the expansion?). Also, can this claim be validated by cannon rather than speculation? Considering that a player character can be a female or male, or a dunmer, khajit .etc? This seems like fanon to me. Jus' sayin.124.187.96.254 12:26, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Well making the assumption that the Shivering Isles ending is Canon one could say that, because your character eventually becomes a full daedric lord (and therefore loses all physical characteristics) they must shift form to keep in tune with the concept they represent, in this case madness. Therefore the Sheogorath seen in Skyrim would have a good chance of being the player character from Oblivion having changed to a more representative form over the last couple of hundred years. I mean the Sheogorath in Oblivion seemed almost ignorant of the events transpiring in the mortal realm. Another important clue would be his reference to a "Fox" probably the Gray Fox which is not even a recognized persona in the Shivering Isles. Either way since the Shivering Isles is an extension to the story in Oblivion it can not be ruled out. I guess, since the world is up to player interpretation, we can each have our own theories into how it turns out. 72.178.99.115 06:18, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

It's possible that beacause the Sheogorath you meet in Palagius' mind refers to his time there as a 'vacation' that this is the REAL, original sheogorath who has just been chilling for the last two hundred years and the CoC is about to have a surprise as the true master of the shivering isles returns 92.6.50.252 22:37, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

It was slated before that your player character did all the events that were happening towards the end and the beginning of the fourth era are canon (I'll add the source if I find it), not counting Isles as canon would basically be the equivalent of saying that the Hero of Kvatch was never involved with the Oblivion Crisis either. the fact that Sheogorath mentions Martin, The Gray Fox, a severed head (Dark Brotherhood) and the cheese, which makes mention of what the original said to The Hero of Kvatch. He also goes on to say that Dragonborn reminds him of himself when he was his/her age.

Yes, in an Elder Scrolls game you scribe your own adventure but your character always has a drastic change on the empire also, this is quite a stir but I think we should organize Sheogorath's page better. Perhaps rename this particular one Jyggalag as it has more information on the Shivering version (and generally, we should have at least three pages of him, one just saying a basic rundown of him being the Prince of Madness etc, etc. This one, Shivering Isles Sheogorath and his successor (Hero of Kvatch) can have the info placed in his/her own profile). All the trivia that was originally contained of Skyrim Sheogorath should be placed on The Hero of Kvatch's page also.

And yes, this is my first post here. But having got experience over the past few months on other wikis I thought I decided to ahem, expand my horizons. -- Cathal O'Hara  (Talk)  03:58, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty much agreed with Cathal O'Hara that current Sheogorath is indeed Hero of Kvatch. I heard him that he used to be an adventurer like us, and the fact that he witnessed Martin turning into Dragon of Akataosh by himself. Didn't you all forget that only Hero of Kvatch whom was present at the temple?

Hero of Kvatch very much possible inherited every trait, whether its body, mind, or soul of the past Sheogorath which is now, Jyggalag. That's why he said that it was vacation during his visit to Pelagius mind. And although ywe can play Hero of Kvatch as both gender of any races, I'm pretty much sure that Hero of Kvatch have his own canon persona, which might be male Imperial. Dovahkiin too, though we can play as any races, the canon persona is male Nord as shown in many media.

It should noted that Jyggalag, the original Sheogorath with fancy accent and clothes never visited Shivering Isles ever again because he show his gratitude to Hero of Kvatch for freed him from this dual persona of madness. Jyggalag now possibly created his own Plane of Oblivion of Order somewhere and Chilling out. It just matter of time before he spread his influence upon mortal world.Shengar (talk) 13:24, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's up to player. Sheogorath in Skyrim may be that one from Shivering Isles, but he can also be the Hero of Kvatch. The canon was never specified, so you can think as you decided in Shivering Isles. 89.228.77.246 09:10, April 16, 2012 (UTC) PEACE

Wes Johnson confirmed at Comic-Con that the Sheogorath you see in Skyrim is indeed the Hero of Kvatch from Oblivion, now that's settled.

Furthermore, in several books Boethiah is referred to with a male pronoun despite sounding clearly female in Skyrim; why couldn't Sheo change genders? Well, he clearly could, but that's beside the point. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 22:45, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Changed Appearance
I was a bit dissapointed upon seeing him in Skyrim. He looks much less fun and crazy and more like a cheap jester. He had style in Oblivion. Retardedmoose (talk) 01:31, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Blame Hero of Kvacth poor sense of fashion for this one ;). Shengar (talk) 13:26, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

The Hero of Kvatch become Sheogorath
so now that its been established that the champion of cyrodil is probably sheogorath, at what point did he stop being mortal and become a daedra? do you think that eventually he just moved into the palace at new sheoth and after centuries of living in the isles he just became sheogorath? Also, where would the voice have come from, i mean, it is the exact voice that jyggalag had when in sheogorath form Mrbear420 (talk) 05:58, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

When we talking about lore, we must put aside all the gameplay aspect of the game we had. Hero of Kvatch probably turning into full Sheogorath right away after Jyggalag banished form the Shivering Isles, broken free from his curse. As for the voice thing, do you even ever heard Imperial Male Hero Of Kvatch voice beside shouting and grunting? Like I said before, he become full fledged Sheogorath in term of body, soul, and mind. Even he mimic the voice of old Sheogorath. Thoug becoming a daedric prince, he still have his mortal memories with him. He still remembered the whole Martin things and riding a Unicorn or as he said, Narwhal.Shengar (talk) 12:48, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Dadric princes can appear however they want and its not always their true form, so if someone else takes their place, the form they chose to appear in, or talk as, is likly to be similar to the form they encountered before replace the Prince.

Well shengar, your attrocious grammar aside, you are right. It makes sense that he would've immediately become sheogroath and not just continued to quest about, because in terms of gameply that would've put a damper on things (i mean i don't know how things would've went down if you inserted a crazy son of a bitch with godly powers into the battle of burma or what would've happened had the new sheogorath been there when Dagan assailed the city, but i can imagine in the case of the latter it would've been pretty awesome). Though i don't agree with you about becomes an exact copy of sheogorath that doesn't really make sense. The dude below you who didn't sign his post pointed out that daedra have no defined form, so for the hero of kvatch to turn into the form that sheogorath liked is stupid, if anything he became sheogorath in his original form, and simply chose the scottish/irish sounding one because he liked it. I mean the sheogorath in skyrim looks nothing like the one in 3E, aside from his voice there are no similarities. Mrbear420 (talk) 08:29, December 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Before you criticize someone else's grammar, take a look at your own. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 22:48, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Aye, continuing to roam about chaotically for a while as if still a mortal adventurer would be madness. Particularly if you could do the Sheogorath shrine quest after becoming Sheogorath. Madness. At least you could have your choice of plenty of cheese or none ever, or perhaps both.

Have people not done the Sheogorath Daedric quest in Skyrim before commenting here? I don't mean to spoil anything but it doesn't leave much to discuss. Sure there are going to be "but I played an argonian chick" complaints, but *it* is a daedric god; it takes what form it pleases. Furthermore, as a metastory issue they simply cannot account for race and gender choices of individual players. As for "but I didn't do shivering Isles", what about people who didn't do the Oblivion MQ? Should we question the validity of if Nirn was not conquered by Mehrunes Dagon? The established pattern for canon is to move on with the story as if everything from previous installments happened, even when that means inventing the "dragon breaks" to account for outright opposed endings. Irrelevant Label (talk) 22:25, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

I might be mistaken, but I wasn't aware that the title of Sheogorath bestowed upon the Hero of Kvatch gave him/her the power and the privelege of being counted amongst the daedric lords. There's no question in my mind that the Sheogorath in Skyrim gives a clever nod to the Hero of Kvatch, however, I feel that's all it is. Hypothetically speaking, Jyggalag had the ability to watch the Hero throughout the events of Oblivion (many of the princes speak of "watching you"). Therefore, he would have technically "been there" for all of the events mentioned in the Skyrim encounter. The obvious giveaway (aside from the voice and physical appearance) is the over-excitement in regards to cheese. So, without going as far as to assume that the Hero of Kvatch assumed the voice, visage, and personality of his/her predecessor whilst also filling the post, I think it's much likelier that Jyggalag continues to be worshipped as, and appear in the physical form of, Sheogorath; and that the Hero was simply left the throne of the Shivering Isles. Yoruichi&#39;s Paramour (talk) 19:37, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

I agree completely with Yoruichi's Paramour. The other obvious give-away that it's the original and true Sheogorath is the fact that the one in Skyrim is familar with Emperor Pelagius III and even takes the time to meet with him. The Hero of Kvatch wouldn't have known Pelagius, unless the Hero somehow inherited Sheogorath's memories as well, which I highly doubt. Since Sheogorath disappears before He can entrust you with His original staff and the Hero has to get a new one crafted, I'm not sure how any memories could be transferred (assuming that there are even any personal memories of His in the staff). Also as said in the comment above me about the Hero merely being left the Throne of the Isles, I recall Sheogorath basically saying several times throughout the Shivering Isles questline that you're pretty much just keeping the place for him while he's gone. 107.10.147.151 08:20, May 22, 2012 (UTC) Ishnin'ka

Well Ishnin'ka, you have to remember that after Sheogorath became Jygalagg again, sheogorath ceased to exist. Jygalagg was his true form, Sheogorath was just a curse. Jygalagg was teh prince of order, he despised everything Sheogorath stood for. So its safe to assume that once the curse was broken, Jygalagg never had ties to Sheogorath or the shivering Isles again. So it makes no sense that he would be re-assuming the form of Sheogorath centuries later, after having the curse removed. I mean, if YOU were imprisoned in a certain form that stood for everything you hated, and then you were freed of it... would you really EVER take that form again? Lets use racism as an analogy. If a racist white buy become black, and after years he was turned white again, do you really think he would want to go back to being black? Mrbear420 (talk) 20:16, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

I mean, he pretty much says it's a title he gives from himself to himself every couple hundered years. Making it hard to argue he isn't the Champion

@ anonymous poster 98.200.254.213: I always thought that when he says "It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years." he's referring to the end of every era when he becomes Jyggalag briefly before being forced back into being Sheogorath- essentially losing the title and then passing it on to himself again when he reassumes Sheogorath's form. Vespus (talk) 11:54, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

@ Ishnin'ka: I don't see any reason why the memories of a daedric prince cannot be gifted to a mortal. Nor do I see any problem with the idea that the Hero of Kvatch, assuming for now that he does become Sheogorath, would instantly inherit all that Sheogorath is and was, including his memories. Even if this was not the case, however, I don't feel that Skyrim's Sheogorath knowing things from the past is necessarily an indication that he is not the Hero. In fact, you could argue that, being a daedric prince, Sheogorath doesn't have the same restrictions of time and space that mortals do and actually knows all of the things from the past that he does because "the past" means nothing to him, he is in the past and the present and the future simultaneously. This is evidenced by the fact that he is able to talk to Pelagius III inside his mind while at the same time knowing full well that the Dragonborn who comes to confront him is from a time where Pelagius is dead ("That's right! You're in the head of a dead, homicidally insane monarch.") At any rate, if you believe that the Hero becomes Sheogorath then I feel you have to believe that he truly becomes him in his entirety, memories and all. That is not to say, though, that he doesn't carry aspects of the Hero in him as well, and the fact that Sheogorath in Skyrim appears blind could be referencing the fact that he promised to take the Hero's eyes, but as those eyes were now also his own he simply made himself appear blind. At the end of the day, though, this is all speculation. He is mad after all, nothing he does needs to make sense. Vespus (talk) 11:54, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Eyes
I think the part about sheogorath possibly taking the Hero of Kvatch's eyes should be removed, because Sheogorath disappears and would never have a chance to take your eyes. Also, if he took them, Sheogorath in skyrim would have empty eye sockets instead of just white eyes.71.22.182.47 19:54, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

/* Requesting Edit */
In the Skyrim quotes section the fishy stick line is repeated twice, with only the latter being correct. Can somebody delete both of them and write "''Do you mind? I'm doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind." '

I would've done it myself, but the page is locked. XBlackRockShooter (talk) 12:51, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

Theories
Sheogorath said "I was there for the whole sordid affair" The other daedric prince and citizen theories make NO SENSE. Who invented those theories anyway? Is it that HARD TO JUST LET THE HERO OF KVATCH BE SHEOGORATH? That is just stupid, the theories and the person that created them. Oh, and Sheogorath's voice actor comfirmed it. That means that the Hero of Kvatch is, in fact, Sheogorath. 24.61.51.228 15:19, April 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * First off, lose the cap-locks; it makes you look ridiculous. Second, he was also confirmed to be Jyggalyg, so, actually, that does make sense. Since, therefore, there have been various iterations of Sheogorath, is it really so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe, more than two people have been Sheogorath?Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 22:53, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well my theroy is when the Hero dipped the Incomplete Staff into the Font of Madness and assumed the Mantle of Sheogorath his soul was bound to the Shivering Isles. The Isles are an aspect of Sheogorath, they were a part of him, like a limb or finger. Over time this tiny part of Sheogroath would eventually grow and merge with the Hero's soul into a reborn Sheogorath. Like if I had my arm cut off, and the rest of me was destroyed, I could manage to return to life by regenerating from my severed arm. But it seems no one will be satisfied unless we get a direct "Word of God" to clarifiy everything.PrinceJon (talk) 14:12, November 22, 2012 (UTC)PrinceJon

Misinformation
Did anybody notice the Adventure Time mention in the "Trivia" section?

Do I really need to say what's wrong with that?

Fimmion (talk) 07:51, June 20, 2012 (UTC)Fimmion

Sheogorath in skyrim = The Hero Of Kvatch?
So, in the shivering isles the oblivion player (The Hero Of Kvatch) becomes sheogorath. Considering that skyrim is set further forward than oblivion... That surely means that the sheogorath in skyrim is in fact the hero of kvatch? Which means that the hero of kvatch is featured in skyrim? Thoughts? - VaughanTES (talk) 10:08, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

This has already been discussed here, and I think the consensus is that yes, he is the Hero of Kvatch/Champion of Cyrodil/Listener of the Dark Brotherhood/etc. It's cool that you wanted to talk about this, but maybe next time read the rest of the talk thread first? I think there are already two topics on the subject. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 15:30, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

The Champion of Cyrodiil became Sheogorath. We know this.

When did he do so? when he made the Staff.

Why doesn't he become Sheogorath-y at that instant? gameplay mostly, but as for story, he has to grow into his powers. You don't grow up mortal and limited, then obtain divine power and know everything about it.

Why can he enter Mundus after becoming a Daedric Lord? because he represents no threat to Mundus. Champion Sheogorath doesn't want to destroy Tamriel any more than Jyggorath did. And again, hasn't grown into his powers. essentially, LOOPHOLES LIKE A BOSS

Why does he sound the same as the last sheogorath? because we'd riot if sheogorath werent a deranged Scottrish loon with a beard. Plus, who wouldn't want to talk like that?

Why is he a man, even if he was a woman? Because the Daedric lords are beyond gender, except as far as we are concerned. Also pretty sure the canon Champion is an imperial male. even if he weren't daedra are all about change. change and permanency. Sheogorath's no different.

seriously, people.

References to Oblivion in Skyrim
I think that there are loads of references to Oblivion in Skyrim Sheogorath's dialogue. In one sentence he references all four major Guilds - Thieves, Mages, Fighters and Dark Brotherhood - as well as the Sheogorath's Shrine quest. "You know, I was there for that whole sordid affair. Marvelous times! Butterflies,' (an Alchemy ingredient in Skyrim and therefore a possible Mages Guild reference) blood, (Fighters Guild OR Arena) a Fox (The Gray Fox - Thieves Guild) and severed head... (Matthieu Bellamont's Mother's head in the final Dark Brotherhood quest) Oh, and the cheese! (the owner of the inn that is the target of Sheogorath's quest has a collection of rare cheeses.) To die for.'"  He also makes mention of Sheogorath's title being passed down every few thousand years. He also claims that you already know him, but you just don't know it yet. He says that the player reminds him of himself at a younger age, when he rode narwhales, (referencing the unique mount the Unicorn in Oblivion), slept in honeycomb and drunk babies' tears. (Baby's Tears is a creeping plant native to Italy. It has been oft proposed that Imperials and their Empire are based on the Romans and their Empire, making 'babies' tears' a possible reference to the area in which Oblivion took place.) I can't think of a connection for sleeping in honeycomb. Those are my thoughts anyway.

Remove trivia section re: Sheo's eyes and "blindness"
I feel the section about Sheogorath's eyes and supposed blindness should be cut. There is NO evidence that he is blind, a god/Prince can have any kind of eyes they want to and he changes his appearance in every game anyway; this is only a wild assumption based on his eye color. In addition, this is in no way tied to the Shivering Isles one-off comment about Sheogorath maybe taking your eyes, since Skyrim's Sheogorath HAS eyes. They're just white, but otherwise very visibly present.

I realize that the second half of the paragraph points some of these things out, but the whole thing should really just be gone IMO. The first half is pure fan conjecture with no real evidence for it (and plenty of evidence against, as is already listed), and shouldn't be on a wiki alongside canon information. The trivia entry is long and clutter-y, too.

I would do this myself, but the article is locked. If anyone does have authority to get that fanon out of here, I hope they see this.

CHEESE! Brottymon (talk) 07:37, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Factual correction
This is just a question. In Sheogorath's Trivia it sayd Never before have I come across anything in the games or lore to hint at such an event. It's Sheogorath so that alone makes me wonder how capable he would be at gathering the concept of having an affair with anything. Molag makes sense, Sanguine makes sense, not Sheogorath. Does anybody know where this came from?"Six billion cries of agony will birth a new balance" 17:59, January 9, 2014 (UTC)MaleficMistress
 * Sheogorath is one of the only Daedric Princes known to have had an affair with a mortal.

In The Shivering Isles both Sheogorath and Relmyna Verenim, a Dunmer sorceress, speak of each other affectionately and hint at having a physical relationship. John the Bemused (talk) 05:37, February 1, 2014 (UTC)